Written by Metren on 29.05.2024 at 15:36

Personally, I would place much more blame for bad or mediocre shows and movies adapted from other sources at the feet of J.J. Abrams and his bullshit mystery box storytelling philosophy than “wokeness”.

That's also definitely a factor, yeah. It's all about Hollywood losing the ability to just tell good stories. Instead, they've been relying on nostalgia bait, mystery boxes that lead nowhere, and being limited in their creative freedom by adhering to the endless DEI regulations.

Quote:

Bringing together representation, diversity, and artistic integrity has not resulted in anything detrimental. In my own experience, they have actually led to the development of some of the most outstanding media in recent years.

Diversity is all good, as long is the story comes first. Often times they are so tied up with sticking in token diverse characters without thinking whether it even makes sense for the story. Amazon's Rings Of Power is just one example: let's take an established world that was designed to reflect Medeival England and distort it to reflect a small minority of California today, for some reason.

As for "some of the most outstanding media in recent years", I can only assume you're referring to indie or Eastern media. Because Western, big-budget media (Disney, Marvel, Lucasfilm, Amazon...) have checked all their beloved DEI boxes while producing (at best) boring, (at worst) insulting propaganda rather than actual stories.

Written by Bad English on 28.05.2024 at 20:41

Ms account is sorta social media as well.

Shh, don't say that. My government might block it if they found out. They're currently in their 'everything is social media's fault' phase.

Written by F3ynman on 29.05.2024 at 16:22



As for "some of the most outstanding media in recent years", I can only assume you're referring to indie or Eastern media. Because Western, big-budget media (Disney, Marvel, Lucasfilm, Amazon...) have checked all their beloved DEI boxes while producing (at best) boring, (at worst) insulting propaganda rather than actual stories.

I'm obviously not a film media buff at all but is this horrible "dei" really that insulting? Do you miss casual racism and misogyny in your viewing or something?
From an outsiders perspective it just seems like the technology and "dei" is getting better, they have just run out good ideas as everything has been done to death.

Written by no one on 30.05.2024 at 00:03

is this horrible "dei" really that insulting? Do you miss casual racism and misogyny in your viewing or something?

Sure, bud. There only exist those two extremes. Right.

Quote:

they have just run out good ideas as everything has been done to death.

I personally hope that every generation of humans can be at least as creative as the last. There should be no reason that 100 years of good filmmaking should end all of a sudden. But, I suppose it is possible. Still, like I said, Eastern media seems to be alive and well, creating engaging stories that, guess what, don't feature white men like me. But, unlike the clowns in Hollywood, I don't need to literally insert myself into someone else's story to enjoy it.

It seems like modern Hollywood thinks checking the DEI boxes is a replacement for actually writing a good story. I feel like that's probably why their marketing strategy is centered around proclaiming how "diverse and inclusive" their newest product is, because that's the only quality their product can offer: "diversity" and "inclusion". The problem is most of the audience want a good story, not JUST "diversity and inclusion". And don't take my word for it. You just have to see how their revenue and viewer numbers are plummeting.

Written by F3ynman on 30.05.2024 at 00:56

Written by no one on 30.05.2024 at 00:03

is this horrible "dei" really that insulting? Do you miss casual racism and misogyny in your viewing or something?

Sure, bud. There only exist those two extremes. Right.

Quote:

they have just run out good ideas as everything has been done to death.

I personally hope that every generation of humans can be at least as creative as the last. There should be no reason that 100 years of good filmmaking should end all of a sudden. But, I suppose it is possible. Still, like I said, Eastern media seems to be alive and well, creating engaging stories that, guess what, don't feature white men like me. But, unlike the clowns in Hollywood, I don't need to literally insert myself into someone else's story to enjoy it.


It seems like modern Hollywood thinks checking the DEI boxes is a replacement for actually writing a good story. I feel like that's probably why their marketing strategy is centered around proclaiming how "diverse and inclusive" their newest product is, because that's the only quality their product can offer: "diversity" and "inclusion". The problem is most of the audience want a good story, not JUST "diversity and inclusion". And don't take my word for it. You just have to see how their revenue and viewer numbers are plummeting.

Oh no hes calling me bud!

Yeah yeah I fully get what your saying, Jesus christ my wife was watching this medical drama a few weeks ago, the dei in the story was so very cringe. I was just wondering how that's a propaganda/insult to you?

Written by no one on 30.05.2024 at 03:03

the dei in the story was so very cringe. I was just wondering how that's a propaganda/insult to you?

It's insulting because modern Hollywood seems to only think in extremes, kind of reminiscient of your comment here in fact:

Written by no one on 30.05.2024 at 00:03

is this horrible "dei" really that insulting? Do you miss casual racism and misogyny in your viewing or something?

They like to portray that all the media icons of old, whether comic book heroes or the main characters of movies, were all racist and misogynistic. Thus, they need to "redress the balance" through diversity and inclusion. The only problem is, they can't conceive proper equality. Instead of having men and women working together in a movie (like in Alien 1 and 2 or Terminator 1 and 2, for example), they need to first deliberately tear down the old guard (which happens to be straight white men) in order to boost their new diverse hero.

This pattern has repeated itself in practically every franchise you can think of. They take over an established franchise that they obviously despise, "fix" it, and then expect the fans to like it and agree with their message: the old guard were all a bunch of misogynists and racists. And if you don't like that and point out these things and demand just simply good storytelling, regardless of what a person on-screen looks like, then you're called racist and misogynistic. And, yup, that's insulting.

On a side note, it's become very funny how they rationalize this stuff. Maybe you remember the promotion for Rings Of Power, where one person said (paraphrasing) "yeah I've always been a fan of Tolkien's works, BUT they were never inclusive and that bothered me". Well, how did that person become a fan of LoTR if it was never inclusive? Actually, how come 150 million copies of LotR have been sold in over 50 languages with great success for decades if it was so terribly -ist and -phobic? But now Amazon have come to "fix" it, and make it "for everyone", as if it never was already. You can insert almost any other big franchise name (Star Wars, Marvel, etc...) and the same argument holds.

Written by no one on 30.05.2024 at 00:03

they have just run out good ideas as everything has been done to death.

I think the real issue is that they realized doing sequels / reboots is guaranteed easy money. Everything else is considered too risky / not worth investing, at least for big budget movies. There are of course alwasy outliers, like Everything Everywhere All At Once, Killers Of The Flower Moon, Oppenheimer, Dune, Babylon, The Batman, the spiderverse movies.....
Even among the endless sequels and reboot there are some good movies, like Bladerunner 2049, Logan, The Suicide Squad, and I heard the last John Wick was also really good.
Among an endless sea of Hollywood slop, it is still fairly easy to find interesting things to watch imo

Written by F3ynman on 30.05.2024 at 13:07


They like to portray that all the media icons of old, whether comic book heroes or the main characters of movies, were all racist and misogynistic. Thus, they need to "redress the balance" through diversity and inclusion. The only problem is, they can't conceive proper equality. Instead of having men and women working together in a movie (like in Alien 1 and 2 or Terminator 1 and 2, for example), they need to first deliberately tear down the old guard (which happens to be straight white men) in order to boost their new diverse hero.

This pattern has repeated itself in practically every franchise you can think of. They take over an established franchise that they obviously despise, "fix" it, and then expect the fans to like it and agree with their message: the old guard were all a bunch of misogynists and racists. And if you don't like that and point out these things and demand just simply good storytelling, regardless of what a person on-screen looks like, then you're called racist and misogynistic. And, yup, that's insulting.

On a side note, it's become very funny how they rationalize this stuff. Maybe you remember the promotion for Rings Of Power, where one person said (paraphrasing) "yeah I've always been a fan of Tolkien's works, BUT they were never inclusive and that bothered me". Well, how did that person become a fan of LoTR if it was never inclusive? Actually, how come 150 million copies of LotR have been sold in over 50 languages with great success for decades if it was so terribly -ist and -phobic? But now Amazon have come to "fix" it, and make it "for everyone", as if it never was already. You can insert almost any other big franchise name (Star Wars, Marvel, etc...) and the same argument holds.

I guess the wests movie industry is following every other media outlet these days and using there platform as a base to promote there political views, could be worse, imagine if Hollywood was based in Texas 😆 and the message went in the other direction.

Written by no one on 30.05.2024 at 20:17

I guess the wests movie industry is following every other media outlet these days and using there platform as a base to promote there political views, could be worse, imagine if Hollywood was based in Texas 😆 and the message went in the other direction.

Which scenario would be worse depends on our own political views, I guess
But, yeah, I think we can agree that the art form should be primarily used to tell stories, not promote politics.

I wish Warner Brothers had bought Star Wars, instead of Disney. Then they might've turned some of the pre-Disney books into animated straight to dvd movies, like they do with their superhero stuff.
Imagine the Thrawn trilogy, X-Wing series or Legacy Of The Force series as animated films.